Difference between revisions of "User talk:Thadius856"

Revision as of 22:33, 10 September 2008

Capitalization - When (UO and RL)Worlds Collide

Hi Thadius856, welcome aboard! I've noticed you've made quite a few fixes today. Many of those changes were certainly needed, but on some it gave me pause to consider that UO syntax and colloquialisms don't always match up to standard English grammar rules. Some of this is simply the nature of MMO's and some even UO-specific. I'm relatively new here (in the grand scheme of things) and there isn't a Style Guide(something I've mentioned to others before), so perhaps JC, Cogniac, et. al could clarify this a bit so we could all adopt a comprehensive policy and common understanding. --Tancred RedStar 22:54, 10 September 2008 (PDT)

Consider the following example. You're approached in Luna by a young character, who asks:

"Wow, the use best weapon skill property rocks!"

I think we can agree that it would look a bit funny in Proper Case, as such:

"Wow, the Use Best Weapon Skill property rocks!"

Surely, five capitalized words in a sentence of a mere eight words would raise your eyebrow.

Don't get me wrong. I agree that Proper Case has its place on many articles. The spell Summon Air Elemental, for example, is the name of the spell. Were the words used in reference to the spell, and not its name, it would likely be lowercase.

"I love the spell Summon Air Elemental."

versus

"How do I summon an Air Elemental?"

Regardless of what either of us think, we're not the only contributors here and seems to boil down to that fact that a MoS is needed in some form or other, with a fair amount of community input. So... how do we get the ball rolling? :)

Thadius856 23:33, 10 September 2008 (PDT)

The way I see it, the goal is to use the same spelling/syntax as is used in game. For example, refer to the Boomstick article - Notice the capitilisation used in the page text matches that used in the image from the game.

If there is an error in the game, it should be mirrored in the wiki until such time as it's fixed in UO. For example, the Resillient Bracer exists as an article, and the "correct" version (Resilient Bracer) exists as a redirect.

- Bomb Bloke 23:04, 10 September 2008 (PDT)

Response: Ahh, I think we're talking on different points. I'm not making changes to proper names of items here, or mispellings [sic] in the game itself. Your example of Boomstick I wholeheartedly agree with. It is, after all, a proper name, just like Bomb Bloke. However, if you review my edit history closely, you'll see that my edits have largely been to a single subset of articles. Specifically, I've been moving articles written about item properties. These properties are only shown on the popup when mousing over an item. Unfortunately, all item properties in popups that I can recall ever seeing have been in Proper Case.

Consider the following items:

Empty Tub

Weight: 60 Stones

Contents:5/125 Items, 30/400 Stones

Chainmail Leggings

Insured

Weight: 7 Stones

Mana Increase 7

Lower Mana Cost 4%

Lower Reagent Cost 17%

Physical Resist 4%

Fire Resist 4%

Cold Resist 4%

Poison Resist 1%

Energy Resist 2%

Mage Armor

Strength Requirement 60

Durability 43/52

We can plainly see that every word is capitalized. Now, I admit that some of these words are arguable as to whether they should be capitalized. The term "Mage Armor" could honestly be argued either way. However, I'm sure we can agree that "Stones" and "Requirement" are capitalized not because they need to be, but because UO has been programmed to automatically place everything in a mouseover popup in Proper Case. This same behavior is exhibited by named pets - if you name your pet "an unruly dragon", its mouseover displays as "An Unruly Dragon".

Why? Who knows. It doesn't really matter. The point here is that if we expect to remain consistent and follow cases exactly as they are written in the game, we'd logically have to capitalize every instance of "Stones" or "Requirements" on the Wiki.

Hopefully this makes some sort of sense. *gasps for breath*

Thadius856 23:33, 10 September 2008 (PDT)

Welcome! I agree that I would like to see the same syntax that is used in game, or is commonly used by players. It sure raises the recognition factor and ease of use, as I'm cruising around the site.Meridus 23:12, 10 September 2008 (PDT)

Response: I agree with you. Please see my above response for more info. Thadius856 23:33, 10 September 2008 (PDT)

@@ Line 2: / Line 2: @@
 Hi Thadius856, welcome aboard! I've noticed you've made quite a few fixes today. Many of those changes were certainly needed, but on some it gave me pause to consider that UO syntax and colloquialisms don't always match up to standard English grammar rules. Some of this is simply the nature of MMO's and some even UO-specific. I'm relatively new here (in the grand scheme of things) and there isn't a Style Guide(something I've mentioned to others before), so perhaps JC, Cogniac, et. al could clarify this a bit so we could all adopt a comprehensive policy and common understanding. --[[User:Tancred RedStar|Tancred RedStar]] 22:54, 10 September 2008 (PDT)
+:Consider the following example. You're approached in Luna by a young character, who asks:
+::''"Wow, the use best weapon skill property rocks!"''
+:I think we can agree that it would look a bit funny in Proper Case, as such:
+::''"Wow, the Use Best Weapon Skill property rocks!"''
+:Surely, five capitalized words in a sentence of a mere eight words would raise your eyebrow.
+:Don't get me wrong. I agree that Proper Case has its place on many articles. The spell Summon Air Elemental, for example, is the name of the spell. Were the words used in reference to the spell, and not its name, it would likely be lowercase.
+::''"I love the spell Summon Air Elemental."''
+::versus
+::''"How do I summon an Air Elemental?"''
+:Regardless of what either of us think, we're not the only contributors here and seems to boil down to that fact that a MoS is needed in some form or other, with a fair amount of community input. So... how do we get the ball rolling? :)
+:[[User:Thadius856|Thadius856]] 23:33, 10 September 2008 (PDT)
 ----
 The way I see it, the goal is to use the same spelling/syntax as is used in game. For example, refer to the [[Boomstick]] article - Notice the capitilisation used in the page text matches that used in the image from the game.
@@ Line 10: / Line 33: @@
 - [[User:Bomb Bloke|Bomb Bloke]] 23:04, 10 September 2008 (PDT)
+:'''Response:''' Ahh, I think we're talking on different points. I'm not making changes to proper names of items here, or mispellings [sic] in the game itself. Your example of [[Boomstick]] I wholeheartedly agree with. It is, after all, a proper name, just like Bomb Bloke. However, if you review my edit history closely, you'll see that my edits have largely been to a single subset of articles. Specifically, I've been moving articles written about item properties. These properties are only shown on the popup when mousing over an item. Unfortunately, all item properties in popups that I can recall ever seeing have been in Proper Case.
+:Consider the following items:
+::'''Empty Tub'''
+::Weight: 60 Stones
+::Contents:5/125 Items, 30/400 Stones
+::'''Chainmail Leggings'''
+::Insured
+::Weight: 7 Stones
+::Mana Increase 7
+::Lower Mana Cost 4%
+::Lower Reagent Cost 17%
+::Physical Resist 4%
+::Fire Resist 4%
+::Cold Resist 4%
+::Poison Resist 1%
+::Energy Resist 2%
+::Mage Armor
+::Strength Requirement 60
+::Durability 43/52
+:We can plainly see that every word is capitalized. Now, I admit that some of these words are arguable as to whether they should be capitalized. The term "Mage Armor" could honestly be argued either way. However, I'm sure we can agree that "Stones" and "Requirement" are capitalized not because they need to be, but because UO has been programmed to automatically place everything in a mouseover popup in Proper Case. This same behavior is exhibited by named pets - if you name your pet "an unruly dragon", its mouseover displays as "An Unruly Dragon".
+:Why? Who knows. It doesn't really matter. The point here is that if we expect to remain consistent and follow cases ''exactly'' as they are written in the game, we'd logically have to capitalize every instance of "Stones" or "Requirements" on the Wiki.
+:Hopefully this makes some sort of sense. *gasps for breath*
+:[[User:Thadius856|Thadius856]] 23:33, 10 September 2008 (PDT)
 ----
 Welcome!  I agree that I would like to see the same syntax that is used in game, or is commonly used by players.  It sure raises the recognition factor and ease of use, as I'm cruising around the site.[[User:Meridus|Meridus]] 23:12, 10 September 2008 (PDT)
+:'''Response:''' I agree with you. Please see my above response for more info. [[User:Thadius856|Thadius856]] 23:33, 10 September 2008 (PDT)