Difference between revisions of "User talk:Cogniac"

Latest revision as of 08:02, 9 October 2016

Item Properties Template Addition?

I was unsuccessful in adding the following to the item properties nav template. It should take up to 12 lists, if I read it correctly. Not sure why this wouldn't display. Any help would be appreciated.

|group11=Gargoyles Only

|list11=Blood Drinker • Battle Lust • Damage Eater • Casting Focus • Hit Curse • Hit Fatigue • Hit Mana Drain • Reactive Paralyze • Resonance • Soul Charge • Splintering Weapon

--Ceruleus 01:30, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

These props should also be added to Template:Infobox_item. I've added Soul Charge and Poision Resonance before for the two stealable artifacts, shall I add the other ones or would you like them to be added after the above change occurs?
--Nimuaq 01:41, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

I just added this to the Item Properties template. To be honest, you were probably succeeding when you were trying to do it yourself. I'm betting you made the change, hit Preview, and then became frustrated when the template in the "Display" section didn't update? That's a caching issue related to transcluding a template on the template's own page. You have to commit the edit, then edit and preview again to see it update on that page.
--Cogniac 03:30, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

That's right! Well, I'll remember to do that from now on. Thanks.
--Ceruleus 02:04, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the template Template:Item_Properties, with the Publish 65, these properties are no longer gargoyles only, since most of the new human wearable artifacts have these properties (see: Wall of Hungry Mouths). I confirmed that at least Damage Eater property works in humans. (Some of the damage you received has been converted to heal you). This page is now filled with human wearable artifacts. I think something other than Gargoyles Only should be the title of these new properties or maybe we can add them to the relevant sections like Hit Mana Drain to Hit Effects section. What do you think? Nimuaq 02:16, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I would vote for just re-filing them under the pre-existing sections, as you suggested.
--Cogniac 15:13, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Explorers of the Stygian Abyss Event

I added the Human/Elf parts of the quests for this event but couldnt figured out how to add them to the main page. The quest pages are: Ranger of the Abyss Part 1: A Light in the Darkness‎ and Ranger of the Abyss Part 2: Seeds of Virtue‎ with all the relevant page links. Can you help me out?
-Nimuaq 05:28, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

The main page gets its content from a variety of template pages. If you click edit on the Main Page and look near the bottom, all of the templates are listed. You are probably looking for Template:Featured Content and Template:UO News.
- JC the Builder 08:26, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

I added a link to the first part of the quest chain and a byline to Template:Featured Content. You can flex your new sysop powers by adding something to Template:UO News whenever you pass through again.
--Cogniac 21:21, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Editing Craftable Template Pages

Recently, User:Dlwiii started to add skill requirements on the craftable tables of the pages: Template:Carpentry Craftables, Template:Cooking Craftables, Template:Masonry Craftables, Template:Tailoring Craftables and Template:Tinkering Craftables. I'm thinking of editing the tables so that the skill requirements can be aligned to the right of the craftable name. Since the format of the tables on these pages are perfect in terms of readability (which User:Bomb Bloke created), I dont want to change it to uoguidetable or wikitable and I want to preserve the current format. But the code of the current format is very complicated to add new items or skill requirements especially for users who are not familiar with html or any other web editing language. Since most users know how to edit contents of the tables in uoguidetable style, I'm thinking of adding another class, say uoguidecraftabletable in Common.css to change the code of these pages to a more compact one without touching the current format of the tables (borders, colors etc.). I do know how to do it but wanted take your opinion on this. Nimuaq 11:57, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

To be honest, I've been thinking about the craftable templates for some time. I cordoned them off to be worked on after I did all of those navbox templates, but I have been putting it off.
The problem with these templates is that every single one of them is only used in two places; their associated craft skill page, and Craftables. In other words, they shouldn't even really be templates at all. I was thinking of redoing Craftables to be more like, say, Five on Friday: general description at the top of the page followed by a properly compartmentalized list consisting purely of links. There would be a "See: Insert Craft Skill Page Here" at the top of each main section. We could then re-implement all of these templates as stand-alone tables on each craft skill page in the same style as Template:Inscription Craftables (multiple columns of quick reference info).
The idea here is that if a user wants to see information like "Minimum Skill" or "Components," they should be going to either a.) the specific craftable item's page or b.) the associated craft skill for quick reference. Craftables itself should just have a standard list of links that points at the information you need instead of unnecessarily duplicating that information in yet another place.
--Cogniac 18:13, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

House of Commons pages

I noticed the House of Commons Chat pages were removed. I'm a little leery of relying on third-party hosting, in this case Stratics, for perpetuating the content(and esp Stratics given how many crashes/wipes its had over the years). I'm much more a fan of having the text here and a link to the original post/content. These are, more or less, official pronouncements from the dev team and these comments and statements are importat to UO's history and future. My only reservation would be if the material was considered exclusive/copyrighted by the third party.
--Tancred RedStar 19:13, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, when I originally made those pages, I was going to grab every UOHoC, but JC was wary of the idea at the time. And now that Stratics has been bought by TGN and has gone utterly insane in multiple categories, I have also grown wary. Now that Stratics has finally revealed itself as a fully for-profit enterprise, there's no telling who they'll sue for "stealing content."
In the long run, I'm thinking of Wiki-coding them all up and then storing them all offline in multiple places, ready to be put up if Stratics ever collapses entirely.
--Cogniac 19:21, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

UOHOC are conducted by Stratics and it is their right to earn the traffic from their exclusive content. I wouldn't like to have UOGuide content ripped and put on their or any other site. If you wish to create a personal archive in case they are lost or Stratics goes down, then they could be added here. - JC the Builder 19:26, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Freeshard advertising has sneaked in

I hope you are the right person to contact - some freeshard advertising has sneaked in recently with lots of edits (maybe automatically created?) User:GeniusKiKi

Thanks for pointing it out. You can also delete any inappropriate content yourself with a note in the comment about it. - JC the Builder 17:21, 5 December 2013 (PST)

Stratics ripping your contributions

Just wanted to alert you to the situation with the new Stratics Wiki. - JC the Builder (talk) 09:02, 9 October 2016 (PDT)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 {{tocright}}
-==SysOp==
+'''Archives:''' [[User_talk:Cogniac/Archive1|Archive1]]
-I promoted you to SysOp since you are a valued contributor to the site. You can now edit every page on the site. - [[User:JC the Builder|JC the Builder]] 22:56, 28 December 2006 (PST)
-==Categories==
+==Item Properties Template Addition?==
-It is a good idea to tag pages with appropriate Categories. For example, every monster page should have <nowiki>[[Category:Monsters]]</nowiki> at the end. You can see a current list of categories on the [[Special:Categories]] page. You can also start your own by simply picking a name and adding it to a page. Finally, Category code customarily go at the very bottom  of the page. - [[User:JC the Builder|JC the Builder]] 21:11, 29 December 2006 (PST)
+I was unsuccessful in adding the following to the item properties nav template. It should take up to 12 lists, if I read it correctly. Not sure why this wouldn't display. Any help would be appreciated.
+: |group11=Gargoyles Only
+: |list11={{Colored Link|Blood Drinker}} {{Bullet}} {{Colored Link|Battle Lust}} {{Bullet}} {{Colored Link|Damage Eater}} {{Bullet}} {{Colored Link|Casting Focus}} {{Bullet}} {{Colored Link|Hit Curse}} {{Bullet}} {{Colored Link|Hit Fatigue}} {{Bullet}} {{Colored Link|Hit Mana Drain}} {{Bullet}} {{Colored Link|Reactive Paralyze}} {{Bullet}} {{Colored Link|Resonance}} {{Bullet}} {{Colored Link|Soul Charge}} {{Bullet}} {{Colored Link|Splintering Weapon}}
+--[[User:Ceruleus|Ceruleus]] 01:30, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
+: These props should also be added to [[Template:Infobox_item]]. I've added Soul Charge and Poision Resonance before for the two stealable artifacts, shall I add the other ones or would you like them to be added after the above change occurs?{{Line Break}}--[[User:Nimuaq|Nimuaq]] 01:41, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
+: I just added this to the Item Properties template. To be honest, you were probably succeeding when you were trying to do it yourself. I'm betting you made the change, hit Preview, and then became frustrated when the template in the "Display" section didn't update? That's a caching issue related to transcluding a template on the template's own page. You have to commit the edit, then edit and preview again to see it update on that page.{{Line Break}}--[[User:Cogniac|Cogniac]] 03:30, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
+::That's right! Well, I'll remember to do that from now on. Thanks.{{Line Break}}--[[User:Ceruleus|Ceruleus]] 02:04, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
+::: Regarding the template [[:Template:Item_Properties]], with the [[Publish 65]], these properties are no longer gargoyles only, since most of the new human wearable artifacts have these properties (see: [[Wall of Hungry Mouths]]). I confirmed that at least [[Damage Eater]] property works in humans. (''Some of the damage you received has been converted to heal you''). This [[Artifacts (Stygian Abyss)|page]] is now filled with human wearable artifacts. I think something other than '''Gargoyles Only''' should be the title of these new properties or maybe we can add them to the relevant sections like [[Hit Mana Drain]] to Hit Effects section. What do you think? [[User:Nimuaq|Nimuaq]] 02:16, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
+:::: Personally, I would vote for just re-filing them under the pre-existing sections, as you suggested.{{Line Break}}--[[User:Cogniac|Cogniac]] 15:13, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
-==Page Links==
+==Explorers of the Stygian Abyss Event==
-It is good you are adding links to other site pages, but there is also a point when it becomes too much. For example, on the [[Spellweaving]] page you edited this, "The following graph shows how each individual spell can be cast to gain in [[Skills|skill]]. Cross reference your [[Skills|skill]] level at the top with the desired spell along the left column. If your [[Skills|skill]] level is in the green, you can gain from that spell. If it is in the yellow, gains are possible but are more difficult." Having the skills page linked 3 times in the same paragraph isn't going to serve a purpose and too many links will obscure important keywords that should stand out and be linked. Generally, the first time an important term appears on a page is when you make a wiki link. You are doing a wonderful job, I hope you keep it up. - [[User:JC the Builder|JC the Builder]] 06:08, 30 December 2006 (PST)
+I added the Human/Elf parts of the quests for this event but couldnt figured out how to add them to the main page. The quest pages are: [[Ranger of the Abyss Part 1: A Light in the Darkness‎]] and [[Ranger of the Abyss Part 2: Seeds of Virtue‎]] with all the relevant page links. Can you help me out?{{Line Break}}-[[User:Nimuaq|Nimuaq]] 05:28, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
+: The main page gets its content from a variety of template pages. If you click edit on the Main Page and look near the bottom, all of the templates are listed. You are probably looking for [[Template:Featured Content]] and [[Template:UO News]].{{Line Break}}- [[User:JC the Builder|JC the Builder]] 08:26, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
+: I added a link to the first part of the quest chain and a byline to [[Template:Featured Content]]. You can flex your new sysop powers by adding something to [[Template:UO News]] whenever you pass through again.{{Line Break}}--[[User:Cogniac|Cogniac]] 21:21, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
-==Vote on Poll==
+== Editing Craftable Template Pages ==
-I have installed a new poll extension which I hope to use on the front page. Please go submit an answer to the [[TestPoll]] so I can see if it is working properly. - [[User:JC the Builder|JC the Builder]] 21:05, 4 January 2007 (PST)
-:Those checkboxes (I guess those are supposed to be checkboxes) are rather broken. Other than that, good show. --[[User:Cogniac|Cogniac]] 12:33, 5 January 2007 (PST)
+Recently, [[User:Dlwiii]] started to add skill requirements on the craftable tables of the pages: [[Template:Carpentry Craftables]], [[Template:Cooking Craftables]], [[Template:Masonry Craftables]], [[Template:Tailoring Craftables]] and [[Template:Tinkering Craftables]]. I'm thinking of editing the tables so that the skill requirements can be aligned to the right of the craftable name. Since the format of the tables on these pages are perfect in terms of readability (which [[User:Bomb Bloke]] created), I dont want to change it to uoguidetable or wikitable and I want to preserve the current format. But the code of the current format is very complicated to add new items or skill requirements especially for users who are not familiar with html or any other web editing language. Since most users know how to edit contents of the tables in uoguidetable style, I'm thinking of adding another class, say uoguidecraftabletable in Common.css to change the code of these pages to a more compact one without touching the current format of the tables (borders, colors etc.). I do know how to do it but wanted take your opinion on this. [[User:Nimuaq|Nimuaq]] 11:57, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
-:: I know, I am going to fix the style and images to make it more pretty. - [[User:JC the Builder|JC the Builder]] 12:57, 5 January 2007 (PST)
+: To be honest, I've been thinking about the craftable templates for some time. I cordoned them off to be worked on after I did all of those navbox templates, but I have been putting it off.{{Line Break}}The problem with these templates is that every single one of them is only used in two places; their associated craft skill page, and [[Craftables]]. In other words, they shouldn't even really ''be'' templates at all. I was thinking of redoing [[Craftables]] to be more like, say, [[Five on Friday]]: general description at the top of the page followed by a properly compartmentalized list consisting purely of links. There would be a "See: ''Insert Craft Skill Page Here''" at the top of each main section. We could then re-implement all of these templates as stand-alone tables on each craft skill page in the same style as [[Template:Inscription Craftables]] (multiple columns of quick reference info).{{Line Break}}The idea here is that if a user wants to see information like "Minimum Skill" or "Components," they should be going to either a.) the specific craftable item's page or b.) the associated craft skill for quick reference. [[Craftables]] itself should just have a standard list of links that points at the information you need instead of unnecessarily duplicating that information in yet another place.{{Line Break}}--[[User:Cogniac|Cogniac]] 18:13, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
-==Something Must Have Broke==
+==House of Commons pages==
-When I was coding the new privacy shield I had to comment out some code that I had no idea what it does. Let me know if you see anything broken. More on that stuff in the [[UOGuide:Blog]]. - [[User:JC the Builder|JC the Builder]] 21:16, 5 January 2007 (PST)
+I noticed the House of Commons Chat pages were removed. I'm a little leery of relying on third-party hosting, in this case Stratics, for perpetuating the content(and esp Stratics given how many crashes/wipes its had over the years). I'm much more a fan of having the text here and a link to the original post/content. These are, more or less, official pronouncements from the dev team and these comments and statements are importat to UO's history and future. My only reservation would be if the material was considered exclusive/copyrighted by the third party.{{Line Break}}--[[User:Tancred RedStar|Tancred RedStar]] 19:13, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
+: Well, when I originally made those pages, I was going to grab every UOHoC, but JC was wary of the idea at the time. And now that Stratics has been bought by TGN and has gone utterly insane in multiple categories, I have also grown wary. Now that Stratics has finally revealed itself as a fully for-profit enterprise, there's no telling who they'll sue for "stealing content."{{Line Break}}In the long run, I'm thinking of Wiki-coding them all up and then storing them all offline in multiple places, ready to be put up if Stratics ever collapses entirely.{{Line Break}}--[[User:Cogniac|Cogniac]] 19:21, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
+: UOHOC are conducted by Stratics and it is their right to earn the traffic from their exclusive content. I wouldn't like to have UOGuide content ripped and put on their or any other site. If you wish to create a personal archive in case they are lost or Stratics goes down, then they could be added here. - [[User:JC the Builder|JC the Builder]] 19:26, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
-==About catagorizing==
+== Freeshard advertising has sneaked in ==
-I wish I had caught you sooner before you made all those changes. Adding every item to the Item category is kind of pointless. I have discussed this with BBR before and we agreed that things should not be categorized so broadly. For example you added the Clothing, Equipment and Items categorizes to the [[Valorite Robe]]. Those three should actually be categories for other categories. Items would be the top level, then Equipment would be a subcategory of Items, then Clothing a subcategory of Equipment. Finally Cloaks would be a subcategory of Clothing.
-I don't think I have explained this very well. If you have more questions let me know. - [[User:JC the Builder|JC the Builder]] 15:32, 27 May 2007 (PDT)
+I hope you are the right person to contact - some freeshard advertising has sneaked in recently with lots of edits (maybe automatically created?)
+User:GeniusKiKi
+: Thanks for pointing it out. You can also delete any inappropriate content yourself with a note in the comment about it. - [[User:JC the Builder|JC the Builder]] 17:21, 5 December 2013 (PST)
-:The way I was thinking of it was this: you look in the Items category and see every item there is to see. You can either look through the giant list, or pick a subcategory to filter out a bunch of the selections. Then you can select your item from this list, or go down another subcategory. Rinse, repeat. --[[User:Cogniac|Cogniac]] 15:36, 27 May 2007 (PDT)
+== Stratics ripping your contributions ==
-:: Well I sort of see the purpose of categories as a way to find like items. Now if every UO item was added to the Items category, what purpose would it serve? No one would ever be looking at that. But maybe someone will want to look under the Robe one for other types of Robes. - [[User:JC the Builder|JC the Builder]] 18:45, 27 May 2007 (PDT)
-:::Oh well. I see where you're coming from, and I suppose it makes sense. I've switched about half of it back so far. If nothing else fails, we have no "Wanted Categories" anymore. --[[User:Cogniac|Cogniac]] 18:46, 27 May 2007 (PDT)
-I hope you are not offended by these nitpicks. I see you are creating some highly specific categories such as "Leather Ninja Jackets". Is there more than one "Leather Ninja Jacket"? Categories need to have items to fill them. I don't think going any lower than leather armor would be worthwhile. - [[User:JC the Builder|JC the Builder]] 15:41, 31 May 2007 (PDT)
+Just wanted to alert you to the [http://forum.uoguide.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1501 situation with the new Stratics Wiki]. - [[User:JC the Builder|JC the Builder]] ([[User talk:JC the Builder|talk]]) 09:02, 9 October 2016 (PDT)
-:I'm just building some of the Category hierarchy. I figure they're bound to introduce various items with UO:SA and beyond, as well as there being a lot of obscure seer/event items that will eventually fall into some of these categories as their articles get made. Better to have them there and empty in preparation for future articles than having to constantly create them as articles are written that fall into them. --[[User:Cogniac|Cogniac]] 15:45, 31 May 2007 (PDT)
-==Don't worry about banning spambots==
-You are doing a lot of great work on the front page and stuff. I just wanted to say though that banning those spam accounts is probably a waste of time. I haven't noticed them being used for more then one edit. I have been quite lazy and will try to look into the anti-bot stuff BBR was talking about a couple weeks ago. - [[User:JC the Builder|JC the Builder]] 19:40, 5 July 2007 (PDT)
-:I was actually looking at the history of one of the Talk pages from one of the bots you hadn't banned and it had spammed that page 3 times in a row. So at least some of them are being used again. Probably each gets assigned to a specific page and then spams it periodically. On the plus side, it looks like UOStuff is having the same problem. =P --[[User:Cogniac|Cogniac]] 19:49, 5 July 2007 (PDT)
-:: Ok, keep banning them then. I will try and look into a more permanent solution soon. - [[User:JC the Builder|JC the Builder]] 21:58, 5 July 2007 (PDT)
-==text color links==
-This should help :
-<i>{{Link|NPC|color=000000}}</i>, {{Link|Mongbat|color=FF00FF}}, <b>{{Link|Pixie|color=00FFFF}} </b>
-{{:User:BBR/Sig}} 03:43, 6 August 2007 (PDT)
-==conditional macros==
-Have a look at this template: [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Hunter_weapon/Row&action=edit] or [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Template:Tooltip&action=edit], it should show you everything you need to know. Result for them: [http://www.wowwiki.com/Hunter_weapon], [http://www.wowwiki.com/Tracker%27s_Blade] {{:User:BBR/Sig}} 23:40, 6 August 2007 (PDT)
-: Meh i was bored. Just see [[Sandbox]]. i put it to float on the right side, but you can have it float on the left just as easily with the "align" parameter. You should be able to do the other parameters yourself. {{:User:BBR/Sig}} 00:30, 7 August 2007 (PDT)
-: The floaty thing is actually a feature that allows you to put text on the left or right of the item text, to save space ;) {{:User:BBR/Sig}} 22:44, 7 August 2007 (PDT)
-==Client Updates==
-I was going over the site statistics and those client number update pages you were adding actually drive quite a bit of traffic to the site. Nice work on adding those. - [[User:JC the Builder|JC the Builder]] 21:58, 13 September 2007 (PDT)
-: Thanks. I've always seen UOGuide as an archive as well as an information repository, plus, meticulously sifting through all those pages to pull out the Client Patches and System Publishes soothes my OCD. Of course, even I get tired of it eventually, which is why I haven't worked on it much the past few weeks other than to add the latest patches. I went through a little over 2,500 pages on UO.com to come up with what we have so far. Only about 7,000 more to go to get back to early-mid 1999! Also: I put in those placeholders for the KR closed beta patches because I have all the patch notes already set up for them, I'm just waiting to hear back from Jeremy on the actual patch numbers, so those will also go in eventually. <br /><br /> I'm also waiting on some other info from her and Leurocian so I can do some more work on my other project, which is that item property template which is finally mostly working. Hopefully that will bring in some serious hits once I get it fully functional and can fill out all the artifact/item pages with it. --[[User:Cogniac|Cogniac]] 13:21, 14 September 2007 (PDT)
-==Another Promotion==
-You have been one of the most oldest and valued contributors to UOGuide. So I would like to promote you to the very top. There is really no official title. But you will have complete editorial control over the site and any site decisions have to be run by the both of us. To form an analogy, it would be like one of the people on Wikipedia's board of trustees. There would be virtually no change from what you do now. If you would like to accept then it is just so. - [[User:JC the Builder|JC the Builder]] 21:50, 29 December 2007 (PST)
-: I most humbly accept, sir. Thanks! As an aside: Technically, there would be two changes: a minor edit to the Admin Template and a minor edit to the UOGuide:About Staff section. =P --[[User:Cogniac|Cogniac]] 22:09, 29 December 2007 (PST)
-==Template Problem==
-Could you look at the entry for Mind Blast. The template appears hinky, the effect line does not appear nor the icon. I didn't want to meddle as the template is yours and protected. Congrats on the promotion, he sould really come up with a title thought. I GOT IT! Grand Pubah! ok maybe not. ;) --[[User:Ceruleus|Ceruleus]] 16:22, 14 January 2008 (PST)
-: Fixed [[Mind Blast]]. The problem was that the parameters for the Magery Spell template have been changed, thus it was only picking up the parameters from the old list of parameters that also happen to be in the new list of paramters. I've slowly been switching the magery spell pages over, but I've only made it through the Fourth Circle so far. So with Mind Blast I'm up to 33/64 now. Also: I integrated the "Notes" section into the Description, since the "See Also" section is part of the template. Meaning that anything added after the template inclusion will show up after "See Also", which is itself supposed to be the last section on the page.<br />And I think I will pass on Grand Poobah. It reminds me too much of the terrible titles on Stratics. =/ Thanks, though! --[[User:Cogniac|Cogniac]] 17:50, 14 January 2008 (PST)
-==Oh Template Guru==
-Could you please take a look at Test Area 2 on [[UOGuide:Sandbox]]? I am trying to convert to the UOGuide color. However, I can't go live with it as it is. After the table(s), the text size appears to stay at 90% and the width stays at the table width. See Also, Notes have no bold.
-Your template does not have that problem. I'm at a loss and would be grateful for any suggestions. --[[User:Ceruleus|Ceruleus]] 08:54, 26 January 2008 (PST)
-: Fixed. It was a fairly simple (and simple to make) error. The resistances/damage types at the bottom is itself a table within the larger table, so you forgot an extra "|}" at the bottom. This was causing the wiki to think that the rest of the page was just another table cell, so it was applying the table's formatting code to the rest of the page.<br />I also made some code style changes, but none of that really changed the form or function of what is displayed.  --[[User:Cogniac|Cogniac]] 16:28, 26 January 2008 (PST)
-::You're the best! Yes, the table within a table was to "read." Thanks a lot. --[[User:Ceruleus|Ceruleus]] 14:44, 27 January 2008 (PST)